Raydium 3D Game Engine

Official forum for everything about Raydium, ManiaDrive, MeMak, ...
It is currently Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:28 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: feedback
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:48 pm 
After some days playing with maniadrive, here is some feedback to be taken constructively ;-)

- I often wished there were several intermediate times recorded, so I could know in which part I lost/gained time
- How should I configure the camera so that it doesn't flip in the middle of a looping? When I'm in the middle of a looping, the camera rotates, and comes in front of the car.
- like others said, the car is a bit light, sometimes acting like a flipper ball. This is not a major problem though because the behaviour of the car is consistent across the game
- the "in-car" view (F2, not sure anymore ?) is not usable for me (makes me sea-sick :-) Maybe a view where you see the steering wheel and the front of the car would be cool to have.
- I really would like to be able to record and replay my race. I don't especially want to be able to watch the races of others though.
- I never was able to finish supercliobros2: I never manage to jump high enough. Is there a trick?
- [extra low priority] is it by design that there always are fences limiting the track? /me remember stunts car ;-)
- are there plans to have muliple cars, multiple laps races?

That's about it. Maniadrive is the first game in years that makes me play on my computer. I hope you'll continue to develop it further so I can have even more fun and waste some more time!

You rock guys!

Raph

PS:what's the best language for this forum? I speak french but posted in english so everybody can read. Are all (how many btw?) devs french?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:53 am
Posts: 2591
Location: gnniiiii (Scrat)
Hi and thanks a lot for posting here. Some features, as intermediate times, replays, new "worlds" (with news cars and physics) are now planned (but some may take a while before appearing in ManiaDrive :) ).
The problem with the camera is more complex, since it's hard to find a suitable camera behaviour for everybody, and current camera code is already the result of a total rewrite. But, we'll try to do better on this point :)

About Super Clio Bros 2, you're right, there's a small trick, based on maximum car speed. Can't say more :)

Thanks a lot for you final note !

PS : English or french are possible. Most (but not all) members of the team are french.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:37 pm
Posts: 2
Xfennec wrote:
Hi and thanks a lot for posting here. Some features, as intermediate times, replays, new "worlds" (with news cars and physics) are now planned (but some may take a while before appearing in ManiaDrive :) ).


hi xfennec. I have the code, donwloaded via svn. I thought I could peek on it and help with the phisics, but I counldn't make anything out of the code. I read a little ODE's user guide (http://ode.org/ode-latest-userguide.html) and raydiums's docs (http://wiki.raydium.org/wiki/RaydiumApiReference) and, as I said, the code.

I thought I was simply looking for something that would represent the weight of the car, but from your commentary, it seems the is the «world», as you call it, the one that sets those parameters. it sounds the way to make it less jumpy would be to increase the gravity.[url][/url]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:53 am
Posts: 2591
Location: gnniiiii (Scrat)
This is way more complex :) See create_car() in mania_drive.c if you want. Please do not play in "Internet Tracks" mode with a modified version of the game.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 4:28 pm
Posts: 39
You should add security for this.... Can i play with a modified version of a track?
Maybe md5sum of critical files should be exchanged before posting the result... I have no skills in security, but this might help...

_________________
Charly


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:53 am
Posts: 2591
Location: gnniiiii (Scrat)
Probably, but md5's not the answer. And the problem exists with tracks, but also sources, binaries, PHP scripts, HTTP transfers...

This is an "open" project, by design :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:45 am 
I think to play over internet, it would just enough if the executable and the track has the correct md5sum for his plataform.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:37 pm
Posts: 2
Xfennec wrote:
This is way more complex :) See create_car() in mania_drive.c if you want.


I saw it several times, and still I can't make much out of it.

I see it creates an object box (whatever that is) called «corps» from the clio.tri file, which seems to have info bout the triangles that compose the car, but no other info like the weight as I would spect.

then it creates another object box called «balancier» and later the four wheels, and finally a motor. I don't know where anything to do whith the bumpiness is defined there. can you shed some light here?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:53 am
Posts: 2591
Location: gnniiiii (Scrat)
ThOR27 :
Quote:
I think to play over internet, it would just enough if the executable and the track has the correct md5sum for his plataform.

Yeah, but what about people who need to recompile the game (x86_64 Linux users, for example) or simply want to do it ? We can't say : "Use our binaries or play only to solo mode" !

StyXman : Are you sure to have read docs ? :)
From the API Reference :
39.73 int raydium_ode_object_box_add (char *name, int group, dReal mass, dReal tx, dReal ty, dReal tz, signed char type, int tag, char *mesh)
I hope you know the difference between mass and weight ?
About "bumpiness of shock absorber", you're supposed to tweak ERP and CFM with raydium_ode_joint_suspension_name(), as it's done in create_car(). See also raydium_ode_element_material() wich tunes ERP and CFM for each element.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:55 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Plaisir (et oui, ça fait plaisir)
Mmm, I may be missing some point but, how would you check whether these md5sum are correct ?
By asking the client ? Then it would not be too hard to fake a response with the md5 expected by server.


--
guitou


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:59 pm
Posts: 828
i suppose the best way to avoid cheating is making server-side checks.
I mean, for example:
1- check if the initial position is right
2- check if the current speed is valid
3- check if the current position is at no more than X distance from a path
4- check if the final position is right

In this way the server can make a summary of the checks and, if all they are acceptable, then the final time will be stored.

Of course this method has a big problem: it needs "constant" communication with the server
Even with one check at each second, with a high number of players simultaneus, the server will have a huge charge. That's mean, the server needs a powerfull hardware and a wiide bandwitdh


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:53 am
Posts: 2591
Location: gnniiiii (Scrat)
The idea is good (Punkbuster for "real commercial video games" use things like this [but not only]) but really complex ! For bandwidth reasons, right, but also because checking that speed is valid depends of many things (all ODE physics, boosts, downhill) and will require a bit of tolerance, wich may be used by cheaters.

I really think that anti-cheating for real time game is a huge task.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:02 am 
If the game could record replays then cheating is almost solvable too. The local game could send the replay in addition to md5 and then the server would autotest it locally.

It does not solve the problem of "tool-assisted" play(stepping through the race at a slowed rate and rerecording over mistakes and slow areas), but tool-assisted is harder for a cheater to write than a "report time is 0/increase acceleration/improve traction" program, and disproving a tool-assist is unlikely since anyone could potentially drive "perfectly." Even then, with a "lucky" bounce or a tiny change in turning, almost any time can be improved.

And in a complex-physics game like this one, even a bot would take a very long time to find a perfect route because there are too many variations, even in the smallest tracks.

Cheating could be an issue in the real-time multiplayer modes since it can't be queued and batch-processed like time attack, but it's also not as important a mode. The global highscore is a bigger target and cheaters will be more interested in it.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:53 am
Posts: 2591
Location: gnniiiii (Scrat)
Currently, wer'e not able to create input-driven replays, but only "positional" ones, recording element's position and rotation at a regular frequency.
The problem with input recording is that it's (very) hard to make ODE deterministic, and with such system it's almost impossible to make replays compatible over various ManiaDrive version (each time the physics change, replays becomes unusable).

But it's very easy to cheat with "positional replays" ... :)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group