Raydium 3D Game Engine

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 Post subject: GLUT is evil !
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:05 pm 
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Since a few weeks, we've encountered a lot of bug and portability problems with GLUT/freeglut window management (fullscreen, 16 bit display, ...), added to a lot of missing features (poor keyboard management, for example).
So I'm trying to find a replacement to glut, and here are the best candidates for now :

- "Homemade" lib (need a lot of testing and may require a lot of maintaining work)
- SDL (complex, heavy dependency)
- PLIB's subset : "PW" http://plib.sourceforge.net/index.html (very simple, easy to tweak or to rewrite)
- GLFW, http://glfw.sourceforge.net/ (simple, very portable, but much complex than PW)

Feel free to complete this list, and to try a migration :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:22 pm 
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i think that all the linux distributions currently has SDL libraries(Debian & Ubuntu for sure). About windows i have no idea...
SDL has the advantage in the input, since it already has full non-english keyboard support.
By other hand i didn't try the other candidates...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:28 pm 
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For me, the problem with dependencies is more that we must deal with various versions and flavours. But you're right about huge SDL feature list ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:47 pm 
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SDL is GPL. What about to copy/paste the interesting pieces of code(from SDL to raydium ) and ignore the rest?
Since is GPL and Raydium is GPL there is no need of make more changes, right?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:01 pm 
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It's hard to maintain, then. It may be a good idea to give SDL a try, but as a compile time option (config.h), continuing using glut. After a period of test, we could switch to SDL by default and keep GLUT as a fallback.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:05 pm 
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by your description PLIB look right. Why not PLIB?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:24 pm 
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Well ... it's hard to give any answer before doing more tests, that was the reason of this post :)
PLIB (LGPL) use a simple code, allowing window/keyboard/mouse support for win32, X11 (many Unices) and MacOSX, but needs a bit of rewriting.It's clear that if we're chosing PLIB, we're going to extract PW and inject it in Raydium source tree (like SDL in one of your previous post). With SDL, we've a big project, with a lot of developpers maintining the whole thing ... not with PLIB. Blaaaaa ... hard choice :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:00 pm 
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Don't know if openglut exists on Windows but did you test it ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:12 pm 
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It was my first choice, but for now, OpenGLUT (wich is a fork of freeglut) doesn't provides anything much more interesting than GLUT or freeglut. There's an intersting list of "proposals" on the website of the project, but nothing is coded yet.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:02 am 
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I thnik that raydium is interesting because it's quite easy to make a small app work. It is robust.

Merging with large projects, is often source of trouble. Before raydium i've try delta3d and some others. It's quite difficult to have a clean compil.
Bad lib versions, package to download, and finally nothing really usable.

The distribution of osg is clean, but the wole project is huge.

By this way, i vote for plib. But is my vote really revelant ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:45 pm 
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It is ! I think the first step is now to give a try to PLIB's PW, using it to rewrite a "GLUT style" API. After a few tests, we'll see if this is the good choice, and if not, try SDL. Dunno if this task must be done before ManiaDrive release, or after ...


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 Post subject: But
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:36 pm 
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Nothing ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:10 pm 
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Some work is started on this subject, with "myglut", a very small GLUT-like API, based on PLIB's PW functions.
The idea is to allow anyone to "switch back" to real GLUT, if needed since the API is almost the same.

X11 version is (almost) done. Next task : win32 version.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:05 am 
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keep me informed, i can make some tests if needed.

Have a nice day.
Jacques


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:24 pm 
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I'll not commit until the full API is completed (x11 and win32), perhaps this week end.


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