Raydium 3D Game Engine

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:09 pm 
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Well, is an invented term.
In a first try the skeleton was turned 90º in the z axis, so i have fixed(corrected)its position. :) Just that

In the current version i have added name of the bones in the debug mode, however i have no time to make a video :(


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:46 pm 
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OK. Again, keep going, I'm very curious to see all this working under my own eyes ;)


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 4:55 pm 
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A new bit update.
Image
As i commented already, the current version allows to show names of the bones correctly aligned with each one (only in debug mode).
I have fix an small shift in the bones (cause i was using glVertex3i instead of glVertex3f).
Also the animation can now be driven using keys to move it forward (in the time) or backwards.
So currently it works and can be interactively controlled.
Now we should define a new format file (or an added into bvh) to manage (easily) the animations.
I mean currently a bvh file is just a series of animation frames, and that is not quite useful for us.
Our system should allow us to define clips of animation (example from frame 45 to frame 167), and its properties (like: loopable clip, name of the clip, if it can be interrupted by an ODE collision, etc...)


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 1:31 pm 
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It could be a separate file, "linking" the BVH file ? A bit like .prt files for the particles engine ... No ?


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:26 pm 
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yes, that's what i was thinking.
However at last we will find ourselves working with 4 files per model:
1- mesh of the object (.tri)
2- bvh of the animation (.bvh)
3- animation definitions (.anim maybe)
4- textures and so
And perhaps even more files (i'm thinking now in IA behaviours and so)

So maybe we should start to plan about a tar system to package all those files in just one (with no compression).
---

One more thing.
If you review this video : http://www.naturalmotion.com/files/dyna ... studio.avi or even better this image:
Image
You can put attention in the composition of the body. There are a few boxes, a few spheres and a lot of "rounded capped cilinders". I'm seriously taking this technology like a goal for raydium so i'd like to replicate all that. However, if i'm not wrong, ODE has no support for "rounded capped cilinders", and even Raydium have no support for cylinders.
Could someone (surely you, xfennec) add cylinders to Raydium? With cylinders and spheres i could replicate (i hope) that behaviours (but with worse perfomance), but using only spheres and boxes i'm quite limited and the resulting physics will be no so good as it should be.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:22 pm 
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Well, I'm thinking time to time to add new shapes to RayODE. It's probably quiet straightforward to code, but there's a few points :
- Cylinder collision support is not complete
- We need to update our ODE version (Linux & windows), and it requires to test everything (including ManiaDrive)
- Most things can be done with box + spheres (I've used "compositing" a few times. For example, you can attach 2 spheres to a box to make a barrel)

But it must be on the TODO, that's right. And we need to upgrade ODE anyway ...
About the Natural Motion example, there so much bodies that it's almost impossible to run something like this smoothly in realtime with ODE, IMHO.
A classical 3D mesh with skin (vertex weight) will probably look better and cost way less CPU time, don't you think ? And about collision detection, I on't think we need a such accurate result for a realtime application. Am I wrong ?

Ref : http://opende.sourceforge.net/wiki/inde ... tection%29


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:20 am 
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Xfennec wrote:
- Cylinder collision support is not complete

Hmm, that's an important point. I have see the url you attached and cylinders can not detect cylinders... bad thing.
Quote:
- We need to update our ODE version (Linux & windows), and it requires to test everything (including ManiaDrive)
I'm not following ODE line of releases. Could be better to wait a bit for a new release?
Quote:
- Most things can be done with box + spheres (I've used "compositing" a few times. For example, you can attach 2 spheres to a box to make a barrel)
Ok, right now that will be the way to do this.

Quote:
About the Natural Motion example, there so much bodies that it's almost impossible to run something like this smoothly in realtime with ODE, IMHO.
Well, that blue forms are only a graphical representation of the colission mesh of the bodies. That system has a regular skeleton that is applied to a regular mesh skinned.
In the other way it is also a hard task, taking a lot of cpu time, could it be added for a future implementation of Physic acceleration cards or the PS3.

Quote:
A classical 3D mesh with skin (vertex weight) will probably look better and cost way less CPU time, don't you think ? And about collision detection, I on't think we need a such accurate result for a realtime application. Am I wrong ?
As i commented before, that's the idea :)


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 Post subject: Ode capped cylinder
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:04 am 
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Hello,

Capped cylinder (cylinder with spherical ends) are fully supported with ode since at least version 0.5.

Cylinder support seem to be more difficult with bugs report from time to time.

Actual version of Ode is enought for capper cylinder support.

Normally "old" program won't change: ode is already handling capped cylindier, but raydium don't use them.

But it need to be tested of course.

A problem is how to orientate the displaying mesh according to axes of the capped cylinder.

Have a nice day
Ouille


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 Post subject: Re: Ode capped cylinder
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:48 am 
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ouille wrote:
Actual version of Ode is enought for capper cylinder support.
Great!! Good news. That change things a lot.
ouille wrote:
A problem is how to orientate the displaying mesh according to axes of the capped cylinder.
I have almost no idea of ODE... but Shouldn't it be the same as the boxes? Boxes and (rounded) capped cylinders are dysplay mesh dependant, right?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:10 am 
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For orientation:

Box and sphere doesn't have preponderant axes, so you just need to adapat box size to mesh.

For capped cylender, it must have on more information.

Bye
Ouille


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Oops ... Upgrade from ODE 0.5cvs to ODE 0.7 was already done, with the commit 516 (26 jan 2007) !
Even if it's not the lastest version (0.8), this version add support for "Capsule" bodies !

So we can/must:
- Check if it's OK for the official win32 SDK (was it upgraded to 0.7 ?)
- Add support for capsule, and why not a preliminary support for cylinders ?
- Add support for "offset bodies" (cool for lowering the center of gravity of cars, for example. Probably very simple to do)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 7:17 am 
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Ouille Sdk is ode 0.7 compliant.
Official sdk to, because first modify this sdk, but we have to change header and dll / lib of ode part.

I'll don't have time to handle this for at least two week, but i can have a look after.

Ode 0.5 has already capsule support (i'm quite sure), drawstuff example comming with ode 0.5 show capsule.

Cylinder are more complicated, and can be simulated by sphere and box fixed together.


Bye
Ouille.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:30 am 
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brief update:

Now various bvh files can be loaded simultaneously, and they are shown and can be controlled independently (for example one character could move normally while a second one could move slowly like time-bullet and neo :P )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:11 pm 
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Hello :D

Quote:
Cylinder are more complicated, and can be simulated by sphere and box fixed together.

Can you explain how? :)
I would like make a car like "rollcage" ( http://www.jeuxvideopc.com/screenshots/ ... 6700-1.php )
But without cylinder, it's not possible... :/ (perhaps with ray, but It seem complicated...).

Vicente : Very good job, I am impatient to see a demo ^^

(if you see incomprehensible word in this text, it's normal :oops: )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:39 am 
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They mean that an APPROXIMATION of the collision mesh could be get using a few different forms. But is not accurate.

With cilinders with a height greater than its radius, you could put 1 cube along the hegith and a pair of spheres in each extreme (touching the base and the top of the cube).

In your case maybe you could use 8 or 16 spheres per wheel to get the same effect positioned around the axis of the wheel.


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