Raydium 3D Game Engine

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 Post subject: Raydium license
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:12 pm 
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Hello,

Is Lgpl dependency compatable with raydium license ?

I'd like to add DevIl image loading and saving to raydium. But it is lgpl.

Is it acceptable ?

Have a nice day
Ouille


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Currently raydium is LGPLG+BSD, so i understand that yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:16 pm 
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Yes, you can, but ...

When someone actually use Raydium, he's supposed to choose between LGPL or BSD. So the LGPL release of Raydium can provide Devil support, but BSD release, no. :)

That's how I see things, but I'm not a lawyer (and don't want to be one)

PS: You've probably already guessed it, but I'm not very excited by the idea of a DeviL integration into Raydium ... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:36 pm 
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Ok :(


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:31 pm 
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In fact devil is somehow huge.
However we need loading another types of textures. New users are in fact annoyed by this strange restriction.

So we can use an external library, or adding support for each file by ourselves.

I'm doing too many things lately, but when i finish a few, I could start adding DDS support ( I already did it some time ago in other project and now I have found a free script for doing it, in C, so should be easy an fast).
But again, we will find the same problem than with ODE. We have to extract TGA hardcoding and replace for a new abstraction layer.
Don't you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:55 pm 
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Hello,

Devil seem's to be well fited (dll is 600kb).

Quote:
However we need loading another types of textures. New users are in fact annoyed by this strange restriction


I agree. But raydium is already linked with libjpeg. I'll try to add jpeg read for texture but it's a bit heavy.

Ok for an image load / save abstraction layer.

I'll work on it ... some day :D

have a nice day
Ouille


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:01 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
However we need loading another types of textures. New users are in fact annoyed by this strange restriction

I agree.

I don't. If you let new users being able to use any file format, you'll end up with almost only JPEGs file (or even worse), totally unsuitable for real time 3D (lossy compression, no alpha, ...), just because "it's easier". Raydium is also supposed to help people to learn and understand 3D RT's world. And in this world, you can't just do what you want with picture formats, even if it's "annoying".

It has always been an important rule for Raydium: let's handle only format that we really need, for other format, do a "off line" conversion with suitable tools. That's why we don't handle 3DS files for instance. In other words, here, Raydium is not GIMP.

I don't see ANY positive point for supporting JPEG, BMP, GIF, PCX, ... in a 3D engine. It's probably very impressive on a features list, but it's just a mistake. Even PNG is not a good idea IMHO.

DDS could have it's point, surely, but currently Raydium is able to handle by itself the two most important features of DDS: mipmaps and compression.

To be a bit rude, we've way more interesting things to do than trying to add another quiet huge (and complex) dependency to the engine that will add nothing but misunderstands for beginners and (way, here) more maintaining works for us.


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:39 pm 
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Ok ... :cry:

As blender can handle jpg-> tga it's ok for me.

But remenber you allow me to add jpg texture load ... :D I'll add this some day :D
(http://memak.raydium.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=738&hilit=jpeg#p5573)

Don't bother with all of this, i discover Devil it seem's suitable. That the origin of the post.

Have a nice day.
Ouille


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Haha !
Aren't you Breton or something like that ? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:56 pm 
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As resume I keep my vote for adding:
  • DDS (quite faster loading times)
  • PNG (it's already used by raydium, and its network oriented->thinking when adding streaming capabilities to raydium)

Jpg and other compressed format( with loss) are not good for me


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:59 am 
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Quote:
When someone actually use Raydium, he's supposed to choose between LGPL or BSD. So the LGPL release of Raydium can provide Devil support, but BSD release, no. :)


Raydium's BSD licenses is compatible as long as the BSD licenses Raydium is using doesn't include they old Berkley Advertisement Clause "4-clause BSD".

Quote:
* 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software
* must display the following acknowledgement:
* This product includes software developed by the University of
* California, Berkeley and its contributors.


If anyone has any questions about licenses compatibility you can pm me or contact licensing@fsf.org or http://www.softwarefreedom.org/about/contact/

P.S If you contact http://www.softwarefreedom.org you will receive a response from an licensed lawyer that specializes in free software licenses.

Ohh and one last thing if your planning on close sourcing your game or what ever then don't waist your time bothering licensing@fsf.org or http://www.softwarefreedom.org because one of two things will happen. A: They won't even respond to your e-mail. B: You will receive a long lecture about the evils of closed source.


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:34 pm 
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Can I make a commercial game using raydium?


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:34 pm 
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When you say "commercial" do you mean a game you can sell or a game you can close source and sell?

Lets assume you mean to close source and sell.

First lets look at what dependences Raydium would normally compile your game with on linux.
& im going to assume we are compiling with the glibc library.

    -lXinerama Old MIT X Licenses "BSD"
    -lGL, -lGLU,-lm N/A Depends on if your using NVIDIA, ATI, Mesa lib etc
    -lopenal, -lalut LGPL
    -lvorbis BSD
    -logg BSD
    -lvorbisfile ?
    -ljpeg Depends on what jpeg lib is being used some are BSD, GPL, LGPL
    /libs/libphp5.a PHP Licenses "Note: Php licenses is GPL incompatible not sure if libs are under the same licenses"
    -lresolv I think this is a glibc library? If so then LGPL
    -lcrypt LGPL
    -lz Zlib? if so MIT Licenses "BSD"
    -lcurl MIT "BSD"
    -lxml2 MIT "BSD"
    -lGLEW BSD & SGI Free Software License B <-- GPL incompatible.

So at this state if you compiled your game and all of these library's into a "Standalone binary" and distributed it with out the source you would be in trouble.

You can go here to learn about static vs dynamic compilation.
http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/lupg/tu ... aries.html

And if php is in fact a requirement and its libraries are GPL incompatible then there maybe issues with they other LGPL library's.

Please be aware i am not a lawyer and i have only had about a days exposer to raydium.

The safest way would be to keep the code base open source and then just copyright all media "Models, Textures, Music, Sound, Scripts, etc".

Then you charge for the game "CD/DVD & Book" & you could make it an online pay to play and everyone is happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:03 am 
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In the other word, I cant make any commercial game is not it?


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 Post subject: Re: Raydium license
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 759
Hello,

You probably can, but you have to find an arrangement with used libraries wich are gpl incompatible.

You must admit that we don't have an answer to all of your questions, we can give some information as caracal do but you have to search by yourself, we can do it for you.

Have a nice day.
Ouille.


Last edited by ouille on Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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